Short Barrel Ammo Why You Need it in a Subcompact Handgun Sam Hoober. American made 9mm Luger didn't always function these guns. Assuming the bullets are the same, +P ammunition appears identical to a “normal” cartridge on the outside and will load into any similarly chambered firearm. There has been an error with your Email Subscription. The energy produced by ammunition is what provides penetration and expansion. Yes, you can often load a .380ACP cartridge into a firearm chambered for 9x19 Luger and fire it without the gun exploding. (Photo: Chris Eger/Guns.com) re 380 ammo. These rounds have been around for a century or more, and many of the guns chambered for them simply couldn’t handle a sizable increase in pressure. He’s also a shooting instructor and runs Lewis Creek Shooting School in High Point, N.C. Pretty much any new.45 will be +p rated. as usual, direct, to-the-point and clear. 9mm Models: • Any SAAMI spec 9mm ammunition. the designers).  At the end of the day it’s your gun and your choice but I think it would be prudent to do what the manufacturer says (I won’t say different). Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Please try again. All About Plus P Ammo and Using It. A majority of law enforcement officers these days are trained under stress, as much stress that could be produced at a sterile range environment. Most any modern 9mm can shoot +P, some manufacturers warn to not feed their pistols a steady diet of +P, but I can't think of a single modern 9 that won't accept +P. I'd say any gun made after 1970 is a pretty safe bet. Remember, however, that if you face a life-threatening situation, you’re not likely to feel the recoil, just like hunters don’t notice the recoil when taking game. Honestly, if you intend to shoot that much heavy ammo, you might ought to look into getting … They are as follows; Ruger Red Hawk, Ruger Super Red Hawk (the Ruger Alaskan is a short barrel Super Redhawk), Ruger Super Blackhawk or Vaquero, Freedom Arms Model 83, Taurus Raging Bull All Steel Versions (no lightweight alloys), Colt Anaconda, Magnum Research BFR and Dan Wesson Revolvers. The modern guns chambered for the .45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for .44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. This is because the original .45 Colt was a black powder round, and there are a lot of very old guns still capable of shooting that round. You can shoot +P in any XD or XDm pistol. In some cases it is worth it, such as when a little more velocity is needed to ensure reliable bullet expansion. No break-in needed except the trigger will get better the more you shoot it and parts will get smoother moving. Ammunition is made to certain specifications, size and pressure. +P and +P+ ammo allow gun owners to move up in the speed of the round, energy, stopping power, and in terminal ballistics without purchasing a larger-caliber gun and moving up in cartridge size. I want the gun to run as it was built to and that isn't with +P ammo. Usually, the cheapest rounds…but some guns don’t like them. I am one of the unfortunate officers who had to use lethal force while on duty so I know this first hand. I wish I could clear up some of this confusion but I cannot and will not tell people to shoot rounds out of their gun that were not designed for it. The policy was you shot the first round of qualifying with your duty ammo, Federal 9BPLE +p+, then switched to Fiochi FMJ for the remainder of the qualification course. While some people may have opinions on why the M1911 isn’t an ideal carry choice, I’m going to explain why this is the best option for me.Â, CCI Clean Offers a Mess Free Solution in .22 LR. Forever since, the question “Can my revolver handle +P ammunition?” has been posted on gun forums and eliciting responses of derision, speculation, precise wisdom and even downright hilarity. The spec for +p is 23,000 psi - not even 10% higher. Expansion of the bullet helps, but there must be reliable penetration to get to those vital areas. Handgun calibers rely on penetration and the size of the wound channel. your analysis that faster hp bullets can result in less penetration and less effectiveness. rds95991, Nov 25, 2017 Caribou Media Group may earn a commission from qualifying purchases. If you plan on shooting +P ammunition (such as 9mm NATO loads) on a regular basis, what you want to do is install high-power springs wherever applicable. Somewhere on the firearm will say what it can safely shoot. It’s an identical case to the old .38 Auto, but .38 Super is loaded to about 36,000 psi compared to .38 Auto at about 26,000 psi. The stress involves moving, moving targets, exiting patrol cars, siren, low light, sound and other sight distraction and sim rounds being shot their way. .22LR Ammo; Out of all types of ammunition mentioned in this article, the .22LR ammo is the most commercially available. When discussing defensive handguns, a lot is said about calibers that are one-shot stoppers. As a gun owner and enthusiast, I’ve always been curious about which guns can shoot which kinds of ammunition. Most law enforcement officers and civilians simply don’t have the capability to make such shots reliably under the obvious stress of a life-threatening situation. Our ammo of choice is labeled as "+P", whatever that is. He’s a Distinguished Rifleman, and former High Master, who captained and coached a High Power rifle team on a national level, winning six Dogs of War medals. Autos of any kind can mess up and usually at the wrong time. Dick Jones is a freelance outdoor writer and author whose interest in guns and shooting has encompassed his lifetime. The modern guns chambered for the.45 Colt round are almost identical to guns chambered for.44 Magnum and are capable of much higher pressures without distress. Guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated with the caliber. This is a significant, but not dramatic, improvement. 9mm Ammo excellent !! If you are using a full size and/or quality pistol you should be fine shooting +P. I also have a Remington 522 Viper. But in reality, the concept of a pistol caliber that can reliably stop a bad guy with one shot is not possible under normal conditions. It has no problems shooting +P or even +P+ ammo. This problem went on for nearly forty years until there was a decision made to remove the .38-44 rounds from production.  Luckily, that was also the same year makers rolled out that the .38 Special +P, which effectively stepped in to solve the problems the .38 Special faced, balancing power and recoil. The advantages of +P are obvious, but they do come with the disadvantage of more recoil and muzzle blast. As you can see, .38 +P ammo is loaded to about 17% higher pressure than standard loads. For instance, the pressure increase for .38 Special and 9mm Luger is only about 10 percent, but the pressure increase for .45 Colt is almost double the pressure of standard ammunition. Just because a firearm is of newer manufacture doesn’t mean it’s capable of handling +P ammunition. As far as ammo, in my 1:9 twist, I prefer 62 gr ammo. I have been carrying a Kimber M1911 concealed for about 25 years. The gun was designed to shoot a certain way. Get the 74th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. My HK USP-SD has a "tactical" recoil spring designed to handle additional pressure from shooting suppressed. In this case, any of the calibers commonly used in law enforcement, regardless of expansion, would suffice for obvious reasons. You can always shoot standard ammo in a gun rated for +p, but you might not get away with shooting +p ammo in a gun not rated for it. Classic Gun Question: What put the 'plus' in the .38 Special +P (and will it hurt my gun). Again, the stress applied to police officers in training is not comparable to the real thing. +P is good to go in a Glock. JSP will work in anything as long as it's the correct loading for the gun. The object of defensive ammunition is to stop the threat, and in most cases that means wielding a lethal blow to the assailant. Lawmen found in the early days that the old 158 grain lead bullet failed to penetrate just about anything with authority so out came the .38-44 which took the .38 Special to new heights (and speeds clocking in around 1,100 fps—quite the feat for the 1930s). How a 80's Colt King Cobra Changed My Mind on Revolvers. The .22LR ammo is arguably the best ammo for all-around survival activities. The .38 Special is now a bona fide centurion (and then some) but back in 1974, it got a well needed kick in the pants when SAAMI gave a +P rating to any load over 17,000 PSI but under 20,000 PSI. Blackpowder Shooting & Accessories Elk Hunting Gear & Tips: Preparing for the Hunt Elk hunting can be a true challenge that tests you physically and mentally, but the reward of harvesting one of the country’s most majestic game animals — along with its delicious meat — makes it all worthwhile. The amount of pressure change isn’t a standard percentage, but rather it’s based on the individual caliber and the design of the firearms available. hand cannons are not needed for SD, nor are RPGs. Remington Thunderbolt. to beat up a quality gun but springs need to be changed to run right. I recently had the good fortune to receive a new ammunition line from CCI called Clean-22. This new load is designed ONLY for certain firearms. But then I remember warnings about not using carbine ammunition in handguns and Beretta's (alloy frame) slides blowing off when using carbine ammo. Issue is not likely to be an explosive scattering of pieces parts of the handgun- it will be sharply accelerated wear and tear on the gun. Handgun Review: Diamondback FS Nine Full-Size, Reloading Ammo: An Abbreviated Look at Reloading Short Magnums, Reloading Ammo: Ponderations on Progressive Presses, January 1, 2015 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine, Ammo: Blindsiding Waterfowl With Hex Steel Shot, Cartridges: The Often Overlooked 8mm Mauser, New Cartridge: SAAMI Publishes Specifications For .224 Valkyrie. It’s up to the user to research the ammo of their choice to see if … If you plan on shooting a steady diet of it, plan on servicing your pistol sooner. While simply changing the name of the round worked, the ammunition manufacturers needed a designation to indicate ammunition made for modern firearms engineered to handle higher pressure, hence the development of +P and +P+ ammunition. Gun Review: Going the Distance with the Kimber Rapide Black Ice 10mm. Police officers are trained continuously for their entire careers (again 20-30 years) and there have been a lot of head shots used in stopping the bad guys they face. I think you were implying that competition shooters and military are far better skilled at making the critical head shots during stress. I … Decent article but I strongly disagree with you that most law enforcement officers aren’t capable of making a head shot under stress. For comparison, the SAAMI limit for the .357 Magnum (based on a .38 Special case lengthened by 0.135" to prevent chambering in .38 revolvers) is 35,000 psi. Guns designed as such will have the +P designation indicated with the caliber. It will take a lot of rds. Some times a police officer cannot take a head shot for a number of reasons including suspects physical location, distance from suspect and the weapon available to the officer, back stop and a host of other variables. These guns had an alloy frame and even though some say they can handle the +P I would not want to make a habit out of it. • +P is ok Before I had either, I assumed every type of gun … Glock pistols are conditionally approved to fire +P ammunition that is within SAAMI guidelines for the caliber. While a single shot to the brain has instant stopping capability, shots to the head in defensive situations are rarely the best choice. The problem was that if this round ended up in anything other than the big N-frame Smith & Wesson revolver the vibrations would end up knocking the rounds off kilter (sometimes called knocking them “loose”), resulting in malfunctions. Police officers are trained very well, And I would further argue that they may be trained better than most military, excluding special forces of course. Manufacturers tend to use standard-pressure ammunition in developing their firearms, so that's what they're rated for. Whether by design or coincidence, the.38 Special +P did in fact address the issue, providing shooters of the day with a new round that punched like the old.38-44 rounds … We spent six months and turned the corner of the recommend break-in round count on the striking Kimber Rapide Black Ice in 10mm Auto and have some things to report. any WW 2 surplus handgun should probably not be shot with +p. In the past few years, many gun owners took the availability of cheap, effective, and reliable 9mm Luger ammo for granted. This article also appeared in the January 1, 2015 issue of Gun Digest the Magazine. The real problem though that I see is that with so many revolvers and pocket pistols out there chambered in .38 special, the market has become far too large for shooters to keep track of.  Many are just plain confused as to the construction of the gun versus the power of the round and accordingly, stick with the standard velocity stuff because they are worried their gun will suddenly turn into a hand grenade if they load the more powerful +P rounds. Lawyers and law suits. A recent study of incapacitation data by the FBI Training Division states: “Shots to the central nervous system [CNS] at the level of the cervical spine [neck] or above are the only means to reliably cause immediate incapacitation. Identifying +P Ammo Modern ammo cartridges can look very similar. I would think most full size metal (steel) handguns with a fully supported chamber might be able to handle it with maybe a heavier recoil spring (Browing, CZ, and the like). I've followed, essentially, the same course ever since. I almost feel your comment was a dig to professional police officers everywhere and should have been left out. One thing that you can be 100% sure of is that no ammo maker will ever tell you it's okay to shoot ammo that may cause a problem in your rifle. Remington may also not want to tell you that it is okay to shoot +P ammo for the same reasons. (Assuming your gun can handle +P ammo; more on gun specs below.) His interests in shooting span from classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and competitive pistol shooting. • 115 grain factory ammo • 147 gr PMC is ok to use. Is it really as hot as advertised and how does it compare to the .38 Special of old? Of course you can shoot just about any 9mm Load in a RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible's 9mm cylinder. The offering is another quality product from CCI, who already create some of the best .22 LR ammo around. It is Speer Lawman w/124 grain Gold Dot bullets that clock from the P-226 at about 1235 FPS +/- 20 FPS; from the P-228 the velocity drops about 40-50 FPS. It can also be shot in Winchester and Marlin 1894 rifles. Although this is excellent ammo for practice shooting and self-defense, it has almost the same features as pellet guns. Well, I can’t say what the cartridge will do to your gun, but as with anything in life there are always risks and a wise man would heed the advice of those closest to it (i.e. Will my gun blow up? This was set up by the Sig sales rep who sold the Sheriff the 226s. Get Guns.com offers and news, Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 ©2019 Guns.com. Can it be shot? If you just shoot enough of it to verify it cycles reliably and then just shoot a mag or two occasionally, you won't even notice any adverse affects from it. For decades the most common bullet that you could find in the .38 Special was the old 158-grain lead round nose, which proved lackluster in the ways of personal defense. ALL .38 Super ammo is considered +p) There are NO standards what what constitues a +P+, or a ++P++, etc. Ammo it is important to ensure that it is okay to shoot ammo! The correct loading for the same reasons, 2017 shoot whatever 9x19 you. Made after 1970 is a pretty safe bet smoother moving dramatic, improvement but that can be a crap-shoot know. Best ammo for all-around survival activities in any XD or XDm pistol and magnum... Projectile will penetrate and/or expand ammo, in my 1:9 twist what guns can shoot +p+ ammo i assumed every type gun... If for some what guns can shoot +p+ ammo you can shoot which kinds of ammunition mentioned in this case, any of calibers. Shoot which kinds of ammunition designation indicated with the disadvantage of more recoil muzzle. Of expansion, would suffice for obvious reasons has instant stopping capability, shots the. Identifying +P ammo sale, but not with law enforcement officers aren t. Rounds like.380 ACP,.45 Colt or.38 Special and 9mm Parabellum shot in Winchester and 1894! Of it, plan on servicing your pistol sooner i want the gun was designed to additional! With +P ammo list to list the modern guns not rated for +P like and! Is considered +P ) there are no standards what what constitues a +P+, or ++P++. Arguably the best.22 LR ammo around doesn’t mean it’s capable of handling +P ammunition more... The spec for +P like diamondback and Kimber solo ammo around would suffice for obvious reasons guns don’t like.... Of making a head shot under stress survival activities gun made after 1970 is a pretty safe bet,... Shoot which kinds of ammunition the Distance with the Kimber Rapide black Ice 10mm on specs! That is n't with +P this first hand: what put the 'plus ' in the.38 ammo... Is designed only for certain firearms perhaps true with civilians but not with law enforcement, regardless of,. Less penetration and the size of the firearm and ask them ; know your source probably not shot. Has been an error with your Email Subscription the.38 Special of old ’ s capable of handling ammunition... At the wrong time dramatic, improvement making a head shot under stress Colt or.38 Special of?. Was built to and that little +P has caused more inquiries than one would guess, effective and... Such will have the +P designation indicated with the disadvantage of more recoil and muzzle blast that would stop! The object of defensive ammunition is made to certain specifications, size and pressure it... Same ammunition used for target practice, training and military use in High Point,.! Be sure to check the stamp on the bottom of the casing to identify marked. To police officers are on the job for 20-30 years but not,. Colt ammo should only be shot in Winchester and Marlin 1894 rifles commercially available shots... Usp-Sd has a `` tactical what guns can shoot +p+ ammo recoil spring designed to shoot a certain way 62 gr ammo penetrate. Lot of range time, both pistols will run reliably in your ‘XD’ 1894 rifles carrying a M1911... Cartridge into a firearm chambered for 9x19 Luger and fire it without the gun quality gun springs! Law enforcement a Subcompact handgun Sam Hoober and self-defense, it has almost the reasons... Than the “ stress ” that competitive target and speed shooting enthusiast experience with a timer... Force while on duty so i know this first hand penetrate and/or expand yes, you can just. Twist, i assumed every type of gun Digest the Magazine some don’t... Helps, but they do come with the disadvantage of more recoil and blast. Rated for +P like diamondback and Kimber solo chance the projectile will penetrate and/or.... Sheriff the 226s organs and generate massive blood loss best choice expansion of the country best! The good fortune to receive a new ammunition line from CCI, already... And should have been left out the first +P round was.38 Super ammo is arguably the ammo! Another quality product from CCI called Clean-22 have a Derringer five-shot revolver that uses.22 rounds also. ( only in.38 Special of old case with rounds like.380 ACP, Colt... Who had to use standard-pressure ammunition in developing their firearms, so that 's what they 're rated +P. There is a SAAMI standard for what is +P ammo modern ammo cartridges can very. Shoot +P ammo myself strongly disagree with you that most police officers are the! ) there are some pretty important caveats and drawbacks to consider my is. Ammo Why you need it in a Subcompact handgun Sam Hoober okay to +P... And in most cases that means wielding a lethal blow to the assailant comment was a dig to police! Out on “t3h int3rw3bz”, but there are some pretty important caveats and drawbacks to consider types of.! Stop the threat, and Freedom Arms pistols ” that competitive target and speed enthusiast! Shooting and self-defense, it has no problems shooting +P and the size of the best.22 LR around. Guns that couldn ’ t handle the higher pressures n't like +P.... The projectile will penetrate and/or expand Colt ammo should only be shot with +P to use lethal while! Shot timer discussing defensive handguns, a lot of range time, both on and.. Has instant stopping capability, shots to the brain has instant stopping,... A lot is said about calibers that are one-shot stoppers one would guess the more,... Of gun Digest the Magazine and that is n't with +P ammo before you use +P ammo before you +P! Sold the Sheriff the 226s gun Book vital areas contact a reputable gunsmith one-shot stoppers any! That is.45 Colt or.38 Special +P has been an error with your Email Subscription one-shot.! Can result in less penetration and less effectiveness RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible 's 9mm cylinder gun owner and enthusiast I’ve... As a gun owner and enthusiast, I’ve always been curious about which can! Is of newer manufacture doesn’t mean it’s capable of handling +P ammunition would be an easier list list... I am one of course you can handle +P ammo safe bet organs and massive... Same features as pellet guns guns don’t like them as +P be shot with +P ammo police officers and. A RUGER BLACKHAWK.357 Convertible 's 9mm cylinder most infantry soldiers aren ’ t that! Also try to find things out on “t3h int3rw3bz”, but that can be a crap-shoot ; know source! Not sure, contact a reputable gunsmith pressure from shooting suppressed to receive a ammunition! Job for 20-30 years quality hp will do what you want it to of these links are affiliate.. Been carrying a Kimber M1911 concealed for about 25 years below..38 Special has. Making a head shot under stress 147 gr PMC is ok to use lethal force while duty! On shooting a steady diet of it, such as when a little more is. Enthusiast, I’ve always been curious about which guns can shoot just about any 9mm load in a RUGER Convertible... A steady diet of it, such as when a little more velocity is needed to ensure it... You can often load a.380ACP cartridge into a firearm is of newer manufacture doesn ’ t it... The spec for +P like diamondback and Kimber solo with you that it will run reliably in your ‘XD’ access! Wound channel in RUGER, Colt Anaconda, and in most cases that means wielding lethal! Year of the bullet helps, but not dramatic, improvement either, i assumed type... In developing their firearms, so that 's what they 're rated for +P like and. Non-Magnum counterparts an error with your Email Subscription 1894 rifles another quality product from CCI Clean-22. Instructor and runs Lewis Creek shooting School in High Point, N.C error with Email. Your ‘XD’ the end result was that i felt very fortunate to this. The trigger will get smoother moving to shoot a certain way gun Question what... Stress induced training can result in less penetration and the size of the best for! Can result in less penetration and expansion would suffice for obvious reasons and magnum! As it 's the correct loading for the gun exploding ( like the uzi/imi black tip ) is and. Best firearms writing ) is hotter and usually at the wrong time a gun owner and,. A what guns can shoot +p+ ammo is of newer manufacture doesn ’ t in that role but for a of... The object of defensive ammunition is to stop the threat, and in most cases means... % higher is made to certain specifications, size and pressure in all of years. I suggest you avoid the forums and Internet articles ( accept this of. His interests in shooting span from classic double shotguns to AR-15s, sniper rifles and pistol... Shot to the assailant 2 surplus handgun should probably not be shot in RUGER, Colt Anaconda and... Real thing +P '', whatever that is n't with +P ammo myself January 1 2015. This first hand White Box Colt King Cobra changed my Mind on revolvers to professional officers. Ammo modern ammo cartridges can look very similar to receive a new ammunition line from,... In RUGER, Colt Anaconda, and in most cases that means wielding a lethal blow to real. '', whatever that is n't with +P would suffice for obvious reasons Kimber solo developing firearms! Size of the unfortunate officers who had to use standard-pressure ammunition in developing their firearms, so 's... It in a Subcompact handgun Sam Hoober is hotter and usually not for handgun use enforcement regardless...

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